An interview with Linda Foggie, Global Head of Real Estate Operations, Citi.
In this episode of CREWcast, Wendy Mann interviews Linda Foggie, Global Head of Real Estate Operations, Citi.
Narrator (00:00):
Welcome to Crew Cast, the Crew Network podcast that features top thought leaders in commercial real estate shares important industry insight and inspires change.
Wendy Mann (00:10):
Welcome to our crew cast industry series, which examines trends, hot topics and disruptors across the major sectors of commercial real estate. Today I'm speaking with Linda Foggy, managing director, global head of real estate operations for Citi. Welcome, Linda.
Linda Foggie (00:27):
Thank you, Wendy. It's lovely to be here.
Wendy Mann (00:29):
So let's start with you and acknowledge you have 20 years of experience in the industry. You began your career as a healthcare architect, which I found fascinating by the way, because who knew that was a path, right? Not just architect, but healthcare and you've worked for many major commercial real estate companies. So could you just take us on your journey of how your career path led you to where you are at Citi now?
Linda Foggie (00:54):
Sure, absolutely. And I'll say sometimes I refer to my path as less of a career ladder and more of a career lattice because I've taken some unexpected turns and by unexpected I mean a little bit of risk taking. But really I would say largely my path has been one of strengths-based chasing after and following the paths that sort of align with the natural talents and strengths I have and figuring out what my purpose is, what my highest purpose is, and how I can allow my career to kind of flow through to that. I did start my career as an architect. I, it's not like I dreamed of being an architect from the time I was a little kid, actually, I was really good at math and science and my father was in commercial real estate in some ways in multifamily residential, and I wanted to do something related to that, but also related to math and science, decided to become an architect.
(01:49):
And I did start out in healthcare space, which means I was designing hospitals and surgery centers and hospitals are really fun, interesting, highly regulated, but very long projects. And I figured out that I'm a person that likes to start and end things. So that's what caused me to transition into a different type of architecture and eventually into construction and project management. And I figured out that while I love architecture and I very much value all of my architects and partners that work together with me, it was a little bit too much more heads bound work. And I was really, really quite good heads up talking to clients, figuring out solutions. And so that's sort of what led me to transition to work for CBRE, which was our biggest client at the time. And they asked me to come and join and I stayed there sort of in that project management group and transitioned into global workplace solutions.
(02:41):
And eventually I got the opportunity from my big client there at Wells Fargo to come and join. And at first I was like, I'm a real estate professional. I don't want to work for a bank. And obviously I love banking now, it's where my path is. But I had the opportunity to oversee the design and construction of 30 Hudson Yards, which is a massive, beautiful skyscraper in the skyline of Manhattan. And I went on to do that. And along the way I figured out that I also love design and construction like I did architecture, but my highest purpose was around making an impact for people. And so it started to guide the decisions that I was making when opportunities would come my way, I started to pass them through the filter of what kind of impact am I going to make for other people in a positive way and what am I going to be able to learn to help myself grow and contribute right away to the company?
(03:32):
And that's kind of what led me to transition to all the way to this role in city because I thought I could have an impact on so many people both in our communities with small and diverse businesses, with creating an opportunity for the people within city. We have very large vendor pools here. And so there's just a lot of opportunities to make an impact from this seat as well as we get to do the fun stuff of real estate, design, construction, sustainability, all that good stuff as well. So that's a little bit about how I've sort of transitioned through the years and the different positions and companies.
Wendy Mann (04:08):
I think that's so inspirational though. What you're saying is probably a framework that others have not used, meaning looking to their strengths but also what their passion is and higher purposes being willing to take risks. That to me, it sounds like an unusual way to think about things or I shouldn't say unusual, unique, but I also like that your father had some real estate background that helped inform you as well. But I think at the end of the day, Linda, like what you're saying is that we all have really wonderful strengths and I think as we get older and we settle into who we are as human beings, we look for that passion, purpose and what's really going to make a difference. And so I appreciate that you're talking about that, the community piece of it too. And I know that you're flourishing at Citi and it's given you a whole nother level of opportunity to grow, learn, and contribute. So that's good to hear. So now you oversee Citi's global real estate portfolio across more than 90 countries, 90. That's a huge number. Are there any specific trends you're seeing in markets around the globe? I know you've been doing a lot of traveling. Anything that's emerging trend that we should be aware of?
Linda Foggie (05:20):
So I would say one of the things I'm noticing lately is this much more intentional move towards these very humanized workspaces and workplaces in every way, really. But from thinking about, we always designed our workplaces for diversity in terms of different types of working. We used to call it activity based working was a very popular way of phrasing it. And so we were designing spaces that could support different types of activities that you would do throughout the course of a workday. But now we're starting to see the introduction of things like designing for neurodiversity, making sure that spaces and workplaces are accommodating to people with different types, not only of work styles, but also with other disabilities or different ways of learning. For example, we're thinking about folks who come into the workplace who may be, let's say on the spectrum. And while we love natural light and we always love to flood our spaces with lots of natural light, which is beautiful, but there's some people who that would be very distracting because of their neurodiversity.
(06:30):
And so making sure that we have spaces for the people who love natural light, but for those people as well, thinking about the patterns that we design into our spaces and the floors and in the walls, and if those could be triggering to some people, if for example, they may suffer from epilepsy syndrome and being thoughtful about that. So we're starting to see the introduction of neurodiversity into the workspace, which is really, really cool. Second, I'll focus on something that we see design. It sort of goes beyond the physical design and construction of the space, and we're starting to see a lot more intentional focus on how the spaces are operated. So thinking about this concierge level service that happens for people in this space, especially now as we're transitioning back to the workspace from home and from working from home and from other places.
(07:19):
And also now that travel is being reintroduced. So thinking about visitors who might be employees of your company, but going around to different offices and now thinking about that, we need to compete with the comforts of home and of other places. How do we, we're rolling out a community manager program for example, and then how do we decide who to hire into those roles, what kinds of trainings that they have? So one example is in part of the community manager program where we're looking at the Ritz-Carlton hospitality, so thinking about a lens towards hospitality in our spaces. So that's a trend that I'm starting to see in lots of places and companies as well. So those are pretty cool. And then the third one, I'll point out, sustainability has always been popular for years, but it's actually coming much more to the forefront as a lot of companies are approaching their 2030 goals or their 2025 net zero or sustainability goals. There's much more focus on this. And so particularly when you're doing site selection and you're thinking about which building you should be located in, we're seeing a lot more conversations happen a lot earlier in the process with landlords around what are your intentions around making your buildings green and sustainable as well as healthy. So occupants are quite focused on things like clean air inside of the buildings. And so those are a few of the trends that we're seeing in the workplace side
Wendy Mann (08:44):
That is fascinating. And this neurodiversity piece, just recently we had a session at our convention that was focused on that aspect, and I hadn't really actually given thought to the light because we are all in this business. We're always going more light, more light. So I think that's great. I guess too, you're thinking what sets us apart as both an employer and a business serving clients. And I think that's sort of going to be one of the competitive advantages that companies will have over one another, both from the ESG standpoint, but also that service level. So I always think of Ritz as white glove service and sort of that's what you're talking about is creating the comforts of home. So it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out over time, but I do believe that the sustainability piece, well it's been here around, talked about for 15 years, 20 years now. I think with the driver of ESG, it's really going to be much more accelerated and vibe for by both clients and customers.
Linda Foggie (09:52):
I completely agree. I say sometimes to people, real estate is an expensive line item for a big company, real estate is usually somewhere in the top five largest expenses behind people in technology. And because real estate is an investment, which is a worthy one, I say these spaces have to work. They have to earn this investment. And so the spaces have to be well-designed, highly functional and beautiful all at the same time. And so it's just interesting to see different takes on that and how that's evolving.
Wendy Mann (10:25):
Yeah, that's a great perspective. I like that they have to work for you.
Linda Foggie (10:29):
That's right.
Wendy Mann (10:30):
I hear you. That's really good. Well, so you've been an advocate for DEI and you've actually driven several initiatives throughout your career. What career advice do you have for women or people in minority groups and how can companies better support women and minority groups or underrepresented groups in commercial real estate?
Linda Foggie (10:48):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Wendy Mann (10:51):
Big question, Linda. It's a big
Linda Foggie (10:52):
Question I would say for women and minorities in the workplace, my advice is twofold. One is this. You're going to think initially that I'm talking about formal mentors, and I'm not necessarily, but I'm going to say you have to find a way to surround yourself with a support system. And these could be informal mentors and people who are not called a mentor or labeled at all in any way, in fact. And the people have to be diverse, so they have to be not all like you so that you can get benefit of a diverse set of thoughts and diverse perspectives. And what this is going to do for you is allow you to get information to learn how to navigate. Because at the end of the day, the second piece of the advice is, especially for women and minorities, is you have to figure out a way to ask for what we need.
(11:44):
And because I see across a breadth of different avenues of hiring I have for many years, sometimes I see that it's a little bit harder for women or people of color. Sometimes they don't know exactly what to ask for. They don't know what a role should pay, for example, or what parameters would cause them to have happiness in the workplace aside from just salary. And they may not be able to think about it holistically on their own or by themselves. Sometimes they might be first generation into corporate America or even if you're second generation and this matters. And so when that's the case, it's not hopeless. I would say you find people who you can trust or even if you don't know if you can trust them, just find people who you can ask, get a variety of thoughts and input, and then you find the courage to ask for what you need because when you do, it'll allow you to progress and to grow and to feel happiness, and that's really an important thing. So that would be one piece of advice I would have.
Wendy Mann (12:41):
It's simplistic in nature, but it is so crucial, and you may not think that, and for all of us, especially all women, to create a diverse network is crucial, which is crew network. I might add, I have to throw in that promotion there for crew, but I like that it's informal and it's diverse because you're both, you're setting yourself up for success by learning from others. And I think I'd love to hear, was there any point in your career? This is Wendy Mann going off script, Linda, sorry. No problem. Was there any point in your career where you felt like you had to ask for something? And how did you go about that and how did you get the courage? Or maybe I view you as a courageous person just for the record, but maybe you weren't always like that?
Linda Foggie (13:24):
I was not, but so yes, there were many turning points in my career where I had to figure out how to ask for things and I didn't. But if I go back to an architecture firm that I worked for, this was early in my career obviously, and I had no idea I was probably my second job out of college. I didn't know what a job like that should pay. I didn't know enough to ask for help to ask anyone who would know. And so I just went in and did the interview and they liked me and they asked me what I wanted, and I just gave them the hourly amount that I was making up the first job out of college. And they said yes, in a nanosecond.
(14:08):
I knew right away that I had messed up. And so still it took a while after that because I was always afraid early on, I don't want to ask for too much or I'm just going to get this experience and learn to grow. And so I think all of those sort of missteps have led to will lead you to your ultimate path. And so I would say even when I am thinking about making a move, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was around listen, people know you're smart, you're smart. Don't be afraid to ask stupid questions. It's not literally that the questions are stupid, but it's questions that you might think no one else in the room would have. And over the years after finding the courage to do that, I learned that other people had those same exact questions. And so I would say now in my career, even to this day when I'm unsure, I find these really amazing powerful women, some through crew network and in other ways some mentors who are not women.
(15:10):
And I become unafraid to ask. Now I would say I don't blanket the canvas. I don't just go around asking 12 or 15 people. I try to be selective and I try to curate the energy that comes to me. I try to curate the energy in the space. And so by doing that, I say it's important to think about what it is that you need to do, what you think the outcome is that you want to get through, and then whose energy you let into your space. So I'll talk about two people who I love very much so that they won't be offended, I think. But if I need to make a decision that I think it's a big, risky, scary thing that I need to do, the person I don't go to is my mother because she wants me to be safe and she cares about me and she's going to tell me to take it home,
Wendy Mann (15:52):
That's great. Don't listen.
Linda Foggie (15:55):
But the person I'll go to is my husband because he's going to push me and challenge me and say like, what heck, trust yourself. Take the leap. And so I already know that going into the situation. And so I curate the energy that I allow into my space when I'm trying to make a big decision thoughtfully and carefully. And if I have a question about parenting, I go to mom because she'll make sure it's safe and the kids are well taken care of. So that's just an example using people that are in my family and I love, but I also apply that to mentors, informal mentors. But yeah,
Wendy Mann (16:27):
That's a great example of, I love what you're saying, talking about you curate where you're going to get the information you need. So that's a beautiful thing. And I like what you said too, people know you're smart. And when women do the, I'm sorry, this is probably a stupid question. I just am like, you never need to lead in with that. You don't need to do that to yourself. Just say, here's my question, or I like to approach things, help me understand. Then it's not like I'm admitting, I don't know, I'm just asking maybe for clarity, but I might not really understand. So there's ways to go about it too. But I think you're coaching on this great example of both the time when you were young and the money thing, the salary. I mean, I was the same way. I was like, you're going to give me $12,000 a year for my first job out of college. Yay. And then I realized I you're in the city now, girl, you can't live on that. Exactly. I was like lesson learned.
Linda Foggie (17:24):
I don't want to ignore the second part of your question that you asked, which was what can companies do to support women and minorities? And of course no one has all the answers on this, but maybe I'll just use myself as an example. In my experience joining Citi and how I think they've done a really good job helping me to find a way to acclimate even in a role that's quite senior in the company company. And so a few of the things that they've done here is even when it's just important to acknowledge and be aware that sometimes women or minorities need different things than others to be successful. And so sometimes when you create a one size fits all fits for all people or all employees, it's not necessarily speaking to the types of support that women and minorities need. And I mentioned something before around first generation corporate America, that's a real thing.
(18:25):
It's not a thing that's talked about much. And I read a ton of books. I'm an avid reader. It's not a thing that's written about or well studied, but there is, it's picking up traction. This is a real challenge or issue. And it just means that sometimes when people join your firm, they may have worked in a corporate setting before, but they also may not have anyone at home or in their family life to turn to ask for soft questions like behavioral expectations. And you hear people, if you're a minority, you might hear people talk about, or even a woman, things like using words like covering or code switching as if it's always a very negative thing. But in some ways it's just figuring out how to adhere to cultural norms to the extent that it makes sense so that people can not be distracted and you can get on with the work that you need to get done as well.
(19:15):
So just being aware that that exists and maybe setting up different types of support mechanisms for women and minorities that enter your company. One thing for example that they did for me at Citi, which was very nice, I didn't know it was going to happen, was I came and I was rather new. And Citi is a place that's made up of people with a lot of great tenure. So a lot of people have been here for a very long time, so they set me up with a buddy and I had never had a buddy before. I've been in companies where we had a buddy system and usually we would use it to set up people who were relatively early in their career with a buddy. I've never seen it used for this stage of your career. And it's been amazingly effective because you have someone that you can call and say, what do they mean when they say this?
(20:03):
Why are they saying this? Why do they think this? I was talking to my buddy yesterday, in fact, and we talked about the difference between people who had a lot of tenure and all the change and new people that were coming in. And I just asked her to help me understand what it feels like to a long-term city person when someone says this, when someone talks about the old CEO versus the new CEO. And so I think you might not realize how important that is for people at all levels, but it's been something that's really good. And so I think a couple of very small things honestly that companies can do to be really thoughtful because once you get women and minorities, you do all the work to recruit them and get them onboarded in the door, it's such a shame to lose them because they're feeling out of place or they don't have a proper support system. And sometimes it's not as simple as we think it is to just go ask your boss all the time. So make sure they have another outlet. I would say,
Wendy Mann (20:55):
Well, Linda, I'd love to say something back to you about that, but you said it so perfectly, I feel like I'm just going to shut up. But I think that I love the example you gave, but I do believe that historically, here's the company, here's what we do fit in or get out. And that cannot be the attitude that we have anymore. We need to celebrate what those differences are and provide whatever it is that people need to make them. Right. Absolutely. I don't really think about the cost of recruitment and onboarding and all of that and then to lose people so quickly. It's really, some people may say cost of doing business, but I think it's a cost you can stop the blood flow on that by doing simple things to really make sure people feel like they belong where they are. So appreciate that. Obviously I lied, I wasn't going to shut up, but now once you get to know me better, you'll know. I just like to talk. So let's go on to, oh, one thing you mentioned that I wanted to actually bring up is your two children. I know you have two children, so you're a mom, you're a wife, you're a corporate executive in real estate, you're an MBA student, you're on a corporate board. What can't Linda foggy do? She's doing it all. How do you manage all of that?
Linda Foggie (22:20):
Oh, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked me how I manage all of that instead of how do I balance? Because I would say I probably do a terrible job of finding a balance. I have a hyper focus on time efficiency and I try to, I'm really intentional about prioritizing. I can't get to everything all the time. So I'm going to take maybe my family, for example, over the years when I say I don't do a great job of balancing, I've missed a lot of things as my kids have been growing up. I have two sons, they're teenagers now, 19 and 17. And over the years I've missed things like plays and parent-teacher conferences and PTA meetings and I just miss so much. But there was a few things that I keened on. I wanted to chaperone field trips because field trips are scheduled all the way at the beginning of the school year.
(23:15):
I know exactly what days they are, I can plan for them, I'll just take that day and be there. And that's pretty much all I could do is just make sure that I, because I've always traveled so much or been away or gone or working like a crazy workaholic. And I used to still carry around a lot of what I call mom built about missing things and the other moms are there, but probably it was a long time ago, but it's been probably halfway through my career when I decided to stop caring about that. I don't focus on that anymore. I figure out that what I do in my and how I show up for them, it doesn't necessarily look like how other moms show up for their kids. And it's different. And we have open conversations and we talk. And so I say to them sometimes that's not part of what mom provides.
(23:58):
This is part of the service that mom provides this mom, and we get on with it. And so I started focusing on celebrating the things that I could make it to and do and not worrying about the others because dad is there. Daddy does a great job and have, it's a partnership. And that's how I've been able to manage and across the different priorities. But I have the saying, and one time I said this and then I got quoted in it. So I don't love the word, but I'm going to say it anyway, because a very, very successful woman who's a broker in the commercial real estate industry said one time to me, she said, you have to be ruthless with your time. And the word ruthless sometimes has a negative connotation, but I think what she meant was you really do have to be somewhat in determining. It means that sometimes you have to decline a meeting or push back and say, am I really the best person to be on this call? Or do you really need me or could someone else do it? And you have to really be rigorous and disciplined. I think in managing, you have to prioritize and I have to decide what does good look like for me, which might be different than what good looks like for someone else.
Wendy Mann (25:05):
Well, I mean, you make a good point is that you have to make choices and then you have to not hold it, hold guilt around whether you did something or not. And I think that is great advice to everyone. So thank you for that. And I'm sure at the end of the day, look, and I appreciate my kids are 31 and 28 and I raised good kids, I'm sure your boys are just going to be fine even though you didn't attend every PTA meeting. I feel like you're right. You have to make the choices that matter to them and in your raising of them. And I will tell you, I think field trips are by far a much better use of your time than a PTO meeting, no offense, PTO organizations, but it's, you're doing something together, you get to meet the friends, it's a different experience. So good for you.
Linda Foggie (25:51):
And I love the energy of young people to this day. Some of the nonprofit work that I do, I'm involved with a number of nonprofits and one of them I'm involved with ace. It's a program that mentors high school children, high school students I should say. So these are like 10th to 12th graders. They want to be in architecture or construction and engineering. And there is not more joy that I get out of my day than the energy of these young people. They're curious, they're energetic, they're not pretentious. They ask questions, they're just not. It's just so different. So it energizes me to be around young people. That was one of the things probably I loved about going up field for people to see the kids and be around them. It's really fantastic.
Wendy Mann (26:34):
It's uplifting for you when you have your nose to the grindstone all the time too. Yes. Well, I have one last question. Citi was one of Crew Networks first global partnerships and has been instrumental in supporting our organization's leadership development program. Talk a little bit about the importance of this partnership with Crew, what that means to Citi.
Linda Foggie (26:56):
So I think it had a number of important factors. First, lemme talk about what it meant inside of City because when you think about it, a bank is a really large organization and its core and primary business. It's not real estate, it's banking. And so the real estate group is not one of the largest groups or departments or businesses. But when we took on and we had the opportunity to take on this partnership with crew and the information was shared around the company, you could not imagine the positive response that we got from all across the business for the real estate group to be doing something that fundamentally supported our female population, particularly in an industry that's underrepresented or women are underrepresented I should say. And so it was very positive across all of Citi. We got so many notes back thanking us and in terms of the impact to our people internally.
(27:52):
So we were able to actually send five of our women. We chose five of our women from the real estate group from across the world, from North America, one from South America, from Europe, and from our Asia region as well. And they went through this just year long leadership development. And they actually just graduated not so long ago after the graduation in Chicago. We brought them to headquarters in New York and had a formal graduation ceremony and ceremony. The way these employees talked about what they had learned, how they had been paired with these mentors, these women who were, some of whom were not even in corporate, they were entrepreneurs. Some were in different sides of real estate, but how they were teaching them about confidence and presentation skills and managing difficult conversations was just phenomenal. And so the ability that we've had now to provide this opportunity for development, honestly for some of our women employees has just been phenomenal.
(28:50):
The list of interested parties for next year's program is continuing to grow every day. So we're really proud that we were able to do that. We also were able to send a different group of women to the Crew annual conference recently, and two of our women actually got to speak on panels there, and they had never spoken to an audience of that size or on a public panel before. And so you cannot imagine what it meant to them to be able to represent the brand of Citi that we all love so much at Crew and at that annual convention and conference. So the opportunities have just been phenomenal. And then I would say more broadly, it's really wonderful. Citi feels good about being in a leadership, picking a leadership position to support not only crew, but particularly this program that's developing women. We got to see the photo of all the graduates. I think there were 80 women that graduated together. And so Citi's really, really proud to be taking a leadership role and leading the way with supporting women in this real estate industry and helping to create some additional diversity in this field where it's just been slow to diversify, but it's happening now and it's all good stuff.
Wendy Mann (30:00):
Wow, that just warms my heart to hear you talk about the partnership holistically, internally, externally, and through all of the experiences. And one of the things I always say, and I've met the five young women who are in the leadership program, and I've had the chance to interact with them throughout the year, and I've just watched them blossom and thrive being part of a network of women and peers that they had not imagined before. And that is what we're about. That's what Crew is. We're changing women's lives and we're giving them the tools and capacity capabilities to lift themselves and hopefully thereby lifting within the company and peers that they inspire as well. So I'm really couldn't say more. And I just thank you so much for giving that perspective. And this has been a great conversation, Linda. You are by far a wonderful leader, a wonderful visionary, and just authentic to the bone.
(31:04):
You're not afraid to be who you are and to share the stories that have formed you. And I think that's so powerful. I think that the risks you take, the way you live, you can tell it is all integrated and that you feel strong and confident in who you are today and how you got to be who you are and how you can lead forward and influence and inspire others. And I just, I'm really grateful to have you within Crew Network and have you share this with other women who looking for other women like you every day. So thank you so much.
Linda Foggie (31:36):
Wow, that's quite a summation. Thank you so much, Wendy. Definitely. The feeling is a hundred percent mutual. And I'm really appreciative, honestly, for the opportunity because we talk about highest purpose. And so helping women to find their voice and find their competence in this industry is something that is very near and dear to my heart. And so I'm always happy when I have the opportunity to help in any little way. So thank you for having me.